She went on to suggest that it was unfair to compare Hudson to other cities in New York State because "none of these cities were the number one choice of New Yorkers to move up here during COVID." She asserted that Hudson was a developing city. "It's not developed yet, because it has been neglected for years," Daskaoudi explained. "If you want to have a return on investment," Daskaloudi told Rasner, "you have to make an investment [in infrastructure and parks], so that the city looks nice, and it attracts people." She continued her lecture, telling Rasner, "Every time you the people want something, it costs money." She went on to mention the $50,000 increase in the City's contribution to the Hudson Area Library, which was approved by referendum and had to be accommodated in the city budget.
When Rasner had the opportunity to speak, he explained why he had done the comparison. He spoke about "benchmarking," comparing the operating performance metrics of similarly situated cities to see how much they are spending on various services and identify where Hudson is spending more and understand why. Rasner explained that his research—comparing the budgets and populations of all sixty-three cities in New York—was just a starting point. The department heads should be looking at the budgets for the other cities to help establish goals. When they find examples of cities doing things more economically, they should investigate how that was achieved. Rasner posed the question: "Why are other cities able to succeed with a much lower burden on the taxpayers?"
Rasner pointed out that since 2020 the city budget has increased by close to a million dollars a year—from $14,910,741 to $19,771,551. He concluded by saying, "We should ask ourselves: Where did that money go? Are our lives better for it? . . . Do you feel better now than you did five years ago?"
Councilmember Gary Purnhagen (First Ward) suggested that the last question—"Do you feel better now than you did five years ago?"—be asked of the audience at the hearing. When it was, one voice was heard saying No.
Kristal Heinz commented, "It's the perception that Hudson is an expensive city to live in, and part of that is the taxes are expensive." She went on to say that it feels like most of the burden falls on the middle class, and warned, "If you want this to be a healthy, thriving community, you need to make sure that the middle class can actually afford to live here."
The theme was taken up by Nicole Vidor, who identified herself as a real estate broker. She asserted, "It's getting to the point where if you are a middle-class person, you cannot afford to live here, because the taxes keep going up, all the services keep going up, and we are the ones who are carrying the brunt of the burden." Vidor continued, "The people less fortunate are being taken care of, the very wealthy can absolutely take care of themselves, but the people here who are just normal working people . . . it's getting to the point that we are going to end up with a city that is very rich or very poor."
Vidor cited the example of neighbors of hers who are selling the house that has been their home for sixty years because they can no longer afford the taxes. Vidor maintained that the assessments were "askew," and there was no way her neighbors would be able to sell their house for the amount of its current assessment. She claimed, "I could show you a building that's assessed at $90,000 that's worth $2 million, and I could show you a building that's assessed at $750,000 that's not worth more than $500,000."
Councilmember Margaret Morris (First Ward) told Vidor that many of the points she made resonated with her. "Increasingly, we are becoming a city of the very wealthy and the very poor, and that is not a sustainable community. . . . I have only lived here for fifteen years, but I see the same pattern, and it is very alarming."
The entire hearing can be viewed here.
COPYRIGHT 2024 CAROLE OSTERINK
I wish people would drop the trope about Hudson being the “number one choice of New Yorkers to move“ to post covid. It’s based on a click bait New York Times article about zip code forwarding the immediate months following the start of the pandemic. The fact is, according to the US Census Bureau, that Hudson’s population has continued to decline since 2020, from 5,984 to 5,790. Did wealthy people by second homes upstate, including Hudson? Has housing prices and rents increased along with inflation, as it has worldwide? Yes and yes. We’re not special or magical and definitely not above being compared to similar municipalities. Sure, NYC has a comparatively low tax burden. They get revenue from many sources besides their residents (tourism sales/lodging tax, wall st transactions, tons of federal money). Also, why would we need to invest to “attract people” if everyone already moved up here in its current condition? Contradictions galore.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of contradictions, I do agree with the Council’s criticism about the library referendum. But that’s why we shouldn’t let the budgeting be done by “mob rule.” If everything was based on a vote, the public would vote for a subway to be built down Warren St, a public pool on every block, all the while reducing property taxes by 90%. As much as I’m critical of our electeds, I’d rather have the council approve the budget, with the guidance of our very competent treasurer, a thousand times above the low-information voters. Furthermore, I’d more prefer a very competent city manager, dept heads and treasurer propose a budget to the council.
Nicole Vidor strikes a similar point that I’ve been repeating here: the assessment role is very much unbalanced and unfair. There are many homes valued at 10% of current market values while others are as high as 120%! Look it up for yourselfs on the county’s website. Just look at your own block. It will blow your mind. I truly feel sorry for the neighbors she gave an example of. They weren’t well heeled city slickers. They just made the mistake of changing their title and got swept up in a “welcome stranger” assessment. So take that as a warning, don’t change your deeds and titles. This is also why many people I know haven’t done renovations or have done them under the radar without permits. They don’t want to get pinged and put up to market value and wait another decade before their neighbors get rebalanced. If all values were updated equally and annually, as the state suggests, people wouldn’t be so quick to flip and sell, and more home projects would be properly permitted. Also, people would see the annual increase in taxes reflected from the increasing budgets and this budget meeting would so over crowded they’d have to hold it at the Opera House.
P.S. Carole, I must applaud your choice of thumbnail image for these budget related posts. The Monopoly Man holding his hands up like “who cares?” is perfect.
It's dissapointing that Ms. Daskaloudi would fall back on the old trope that citizens who didn't come to a prior meeting shouldn't exercise their right to speak at a later meeting. It's really a bad look for a legislator to "take attendance" like that. Beyond that, Mr. Rasner asks eminently reasonable questions that require substantive answers from the Council and the Mayor's office. The citizens -- who are being told they will foot these bills -- deserve meaningful responses to their questions.
ReplyDelete💜 Heather, our Treasury, thank you for all your hard work. (Hat tip to Vicky for pointing this out).
ReplyDeleteYou and your team do a lot. You also have to liaise with NY State to use new systems and standards passed down from Albany... and as Vicky and Gary mentioned, a lot is happening in the town, financing activities, bonds, grants etc.
So... thank you Finance Team! 💸
Heather, you are an excellent example, imho, of public money well spent. You have tier 1 credentials, relevant experience, and you put in the time. Not to mention you win elections AND do the actual work. Everyone else either does the work (Department Heads ad their teams) or wins uncontested elections, and then makes more work for Department Heads. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sadly you are 1 of 3 votes, and the other 2 comrades obviously form a block.
1️⃣ "BEA" Pre-Meeting Attendance:
Simple point of information.
This year the BEA (Board of Estimate and Apportionment) and related meetings were often cancelled same day, started early, or participants were not "let in" to the Zoom meetings. I kept the receipts.
But beyond that... why does a town of 5000 people have so many meetings, on so many days. This is not designed for tax payer participation. If you have a full-time job, let alone 2 or 3, you can't attend all these meetings. As Ms. Heinz wisely pointed out...
2️⃣ - re: Public Hearing Process:
Vicky, with all due respect… public hearings are for public input, listening, and then wise compromise for the common good (as you have guided us in the past on other issues). It is not for elected officials to front-run sincere and common sense commentary by tax paying constituents with a rebuttal cum pre-amble. However well intentioned, as you no doubt always are...
Vicky, were you encouraged to open with that comment-rebuttal by one of your fellow council members or the Mayor?
That is the only way I can explain it.
Because, as a long-time sensible and hardworking council member, I am sure you would agree that it would have been more appropriate to have Bob speak first, hand out his research, and then make the reasonable points that you made in response to his research and comment?
This way your points would have been in response to his entire comment officially entered into the record, not some unseen-by-most, email.
Others who did not read the analysis on Gossips, or who did not get Bob's email in the notes, could then follow along and be more informed.
Vicky - we all know you work hard and proactively seek input from your constituents throughout the year... and that is why I ask the above question to make sure that you are not misunderstood via video.
3️⃣ re: BEA is not collaborative, and does not take input
ReplyDeleteThere are 3 people who are supposed to create Hudson's budget, the Mayor, the Common Council President, and the Treasurer.
Leaving aside certain conflicts of interests between the Mayor and the Common Council President…
A: Common Council President Tom DePietro physically assaulted a resident at a previous public TAX meeting, and famously does not engage with residents who do not agree with him.
Tom, you previously stated that you donate your City of Hudson annual payment/honorarium (how much is it again?) to the 501c3 that Mayor Kamal founded, is that still the case this year?
Does Mayor Kamal get any ongoing compensation from that group? I am sure not, but it would be good to affirm these points in a disclosure policy as a matter of public trust and protocol.
B: The Mayor is not particularly responsive over email, does not hold visiting hours with constituents, or write an annual letter on the state of the City, budget etc.. I wrote to Mayor Kamal asking him to hold a big input session around this budget to share his thinking, all the data points he is no doubt considering, and that residents may not know etc.
No answer. No action.
I copied the always kind Mayor's Aide ($50k plus per year cost to tax payers), also no answer.
Kamal, if you are reading this can you please help us understand why you raised your own salary, and argued in favor of raising the Housing Justice Director's salary, and why you also need a Mayor's Aide... when Kinderhook and other larger-than-Hudson towns and cities pay their leaders 1/3 of what we pay you.
Hardly Mayor Pete vibes of accountability and sensibility. You have my number and email, let me know if I can help you organize a real public feedback session around this.
4️⃣ Good news! It doesn't have to be this way! 🌈
ReplyDeleteIf you have not lived in a functioning city…
Just attend the next Kinderhook, Ghent, or Claverack public meeting (same population or larger), but runs on less than half of Hudson's budget.
🤯 Whatever you do... never ever attend a Swiss canton resident meeting or NH Town Hall meeting. Your mind will be blown by the efficiency, respect, and minds following facts.
Notice how in Hudson frustrated residents were rebutted before even speaking, others made very valid comments in response to questions, and then…
No engagement, no discussion, no back and forth from the Mayor.
🟰 Nothing changed after that meeting.
🟰 Nothing ever changes with Kamal and Tom
5️⃣ - Finally… a friendly reminder of the irony that for the rest of the country, and especially for economists and accountants, the acronym BEA stands for "Bureau of Economic Analysis." It is highly respected and bi-partisan, probably the only people inside the beltway in DC not afraid of Musk's D.O.G.E...
Out of respect to the Feds Hudson should rename the budget committee because with its current leader there is little thinking about "economy" and very little "analysis".
It’s disingenuous to compare a city like Hudson to the surrounding bedroom communities in the county. Both the legal and social demands on the disparate municipal forms make such a comparison essentially meaningless. The towns lack police forces, public housing, substantial county holdings of their real estate and, most importantly, their land area is massive compared to Hudson’s so their taxable inventories are each substantially greater than Hudson’s. All these differences mean Hudson requires professional management (which it wholly lacks) while the towns can get by with amateur forms of government.
DeleteHi John Friedman!
Delete1. I personally don't think it is disingenuous to compare equally sized communities in the same county.
It may, however, not be technically correct and a pure apples to apples comparison. And I think that is your very valid point, and I agree with you that the city needs professional management.
And that is because "cities" and "towns" or "villages" have different legal obligations...
My high-level point is that a resident of Kinderhook pays less in taxes, and enjoys a better school and more civil and responsive local government.
2. When you say "towns lack police forces, public housing..."
Do you perhaps know if the City of Hudson is legally obligated (by NY State law or Hudson's own charter) to have its own police force?
I suspect the answer is yes?
Do you perhaps know if the city of Hudson is legally obligated to have public housing, or a certain percentage of residents to be public housing recipients?
3. When you say "substantial county holdings of their real estate and, most importantly, their land area is massive compared to Hudson’s so their taxable inventories are each substantially greater than Hudson’s."
You make a great point about potential greater tax income due to greater surface area and assets... but that would lead me to believe that:
A) they choose not to grow their budget at all costs. Proportionally, their budgets have not grown as much as Hudson's.
Hudson also has non-trivial tourist income...
B) Wouldn't Kinderhook or Ghent require a much larger DPW / roads budget than Hudson?
Or are country roads subsidized by the County or State more than the roads in the City of Hudson?
Forgive my ignorance but no one is paying me $85k per year to know this, to communicate this, and to manage this.
And I do not have a $50k a year aide to figure all this out.
😜
I know it is not your responsibility John and you are not paid, but you are more knowledgeable than many in the city on technical matters and you have lived here a long time and seen many good moments and many shenanigans.
Have a great weekend!
John, FNI: A couple of comments on what was discussed.
DeleteThere's a few towns in Columbia County with their own police department: Chatham, Greenport, Stockport. Even the Village of Philmont has its own.
I can't really speak to how all of their budgets are developing but at least I can when it comes to Greenport: The most notable thing in Greenport's budget is that proceeds from property taxes in 2025 will go up by $25k town-wide. The budget doesn't list the overall amount of raised property taxes but breaks it down by what service gets how much of it. As a property owner, I can attest that the town isn't very aggressive in reassessing properties.
As I look at the budget in more detail, I really only see one section with a notable increase and that's the Highway Fund where expenditures will go up from $1.4 million to $1.7 million. A lion share of that increase is for equipment purchases and those will be one time expenses.
To FNI's point, the biggest costs for towns are roads, water and sewer, by a wide margin. Greenport almost certainly pays more for its roads than Hudson just on account of the fact how spread out it is.
The overall budget for 2025 will sit at $7.1 million which is an increase of 3.91%. Accounting for inflation, it's a negligible increase. These 3.91% (amounting to $108k) include the $85k that Greenport is going to contribute to the Hudson Area library beginning in 2025.
I agree with John that the towns can probably get away with fewer services. That however does not mean that every service that Hudson provides is indispensable.
That youth department is in its entire conception questionable, doubly so given that it pays for the entertainment of kids living outside of Hudson. If Hudson is okay with paying for Greenport kids, why do we need our own department? We however still allocate a little over $50k for youth programing.
I don't need to separately point out that Greenport's equivalent of the Hudson mayor's office costs less than $20k/year.
At the end of the day, I find the budgeting of the various municipalities here in Columbia County baffling. Hudson of course has higher costs than Greenport or Claverack. But on its current trajectory, we're two years away from Hudson having a budget three times the size of Greenport's. There's currently a gap of $12 million between the two and I don't see what justifies this.
Greenport police is/are part- time. They are not always available.
DeleteNot sure if it has been mentioned but Hudson is a very small municipality with some costs that do not scale. The mayor makes almost the same salary as the mayor of Troy, a city with 10 times the population. Treasurer, police chief, code, and DPW are all positions which cost must be borne by a much smaller population.
ReplyDeleteFair point John!
ReplyDeleteAnd I think most reasonable observers agree with you which is why you see DPW and HPD getting less flack than Kamal increasing his salary and renting from a landlord that receives tax breaks from the City. More on Department budgets soon...
Hudson has old infrastructure that needs maintaining... Hudson has a lot of residents who make decisions and take actions that require HPD involvement. (See Chief Franklin's reports).
But we do not need an expensive mayor, mayor's aide, and expensive Housing Justice Director.
Some perspective...
When Mayor Pete Buttigieg was the leader of Bend, Indiana he made $101,869.
Bend, Indiana has a city population of 100k and a ~ $350m budget.
Before winning a CONTESTED election Mayor Pete served in the Navy in Afghanistan, graduated from top undergraduate and graduate programs... worked at a top private sector firm in a big city... and yet... he did not increase his own salary as Mayor.
His salary stayed flat for 8 years. Even though the city he ran is 20x larger than Hudson and its budget 17.5X Hudson's.
Kamal, call me any time if you want advice on how to better trim and balance the budget.
And apologies that I missed the meeting... I was in Africa helping people who do not have the privileges and blessings of Americans who were born and live in New York state.
And before I forget... Nick (Zachos)... you asked a great question as an audience member at the end of the meeting... something to the effect of "what would you do differently with the budget?".
ReplyDeleteNow, first, were you speaking as a former leader of the Hudson Youth Center, or as a former resident of Hudson? Because forgive me if I am wrong but aren't you now a resident of Greenport? Were the taxes too high in Hudson?
Nothing wrong (in my opinion) with former Hudson residents and former City workers attending and speaking at these meetings… and you no doubt have many great insights. But then we should not discriminate against other Greenport residents who attend our meetings and speak up.
❌ ❓ But to your question... I suspect you were at the meeting to guard Hudson's famous Third Rail (i.e. a taboo, controversial or untouchable subject), the Hudson Youth Center budget.
I say the Hudson Youth Center is a Third Rail because an unnamed person threw dog feces at the previous mayor when he tried to discuss the topic, and your role, at a City Hall public meeting. And because anyone who asks questions about the Youth Center is promptly tarred and feathered as a "racist" or a "Republican". Not sure which is more verboten in Hudson.
As you know... we now have a few dozen residents who love touching Third Rails. As an African, who speaks African languages, and who has had property seized (outside the great 🇺🇸) based on the color of my skin ... I don't mind if people I do not respect call me names or make false allegations. 👋
So yes, it is very curious that the City of Hudson spends more than $800k on a "Youth Center" where:
- almost half of the youth are not from Hudson
- almost half of the "youth" are over 13, perhaps even 16.
- I would use exact numbers but the current Youth Center Director does not report on them.
Now, if the Hudson School District did not have a $50m budget, and if Columbia County did not have a youth department, and if we did not have Kite's Nest, and the Spark of Hudson, and the Greater Hudson Promise Neighborhood …and if the Hudson Youth Center did not get more than $100k in private donations per year… then yes, maybe the City of Hudson ought to fund a Hudson Youth Center at the current levels.
But how can so many groups serve so few youth?
I write this note on the plane back from one of the richer cities in Africa where the average annual income is still 1/4 of Hudson's average income. Where the graduated youth (people in their 20s) have a 50% (un) employment rate.
When I tell people about how much money Hudson spends on so few people they either get very sad or do not believe me. And one looked at me and said; "Now I understand why Americans voted for Mr. Trump".
Yes good discussion. Thank you F.N. Immigrant for the details, and Bob Rasner. I've been here 40 years and stepped back from meetings about 20 years ago. Also an immigrant but now a citizen.
DeleteIt’s disappointing to see so many misconceptions about the Hudson Youth Department, especially when the facts tell a much more positive and transparent story. Let’s clarify a few points:
DeleteMonthly Reports Are Public and Detailed
Contrary to claims that the Youth Department Director doesn’t report on youth demographics or activities, the department submits detailed monthly reports to the Common Council. These reports, which are available to the public, provide insights into the number of participants, activities, and goals. For example:
In Summer 2024, 150 kids participated in Oakdale Camp, many of whom paid for the program if they lived outside of Hudson proper.
In Fall 2024, the Youth Center served hundreds of kids through after-school programs and partnerships with the Hudson City School District.
The Youth Department is not operating in the dark—it provides transparent, detailed accounts of its activities, outcomes, and community impact.
Supporting Hudson’s Kids is a Community Priority
Hudson’s youth face unique challenges, and the Youth Center helps bridge gaps left by other organizations. Unlike Kite's Nest or Promise Neighborhood, the Youth Department provides affordable, consistent programming that is accessible to all youth, regardless of socioeconomic status. The $800k budget supports vital resources, including:
Year-round programming, such as summer camps, after-school activities, and mentorship.
A safe space for teenagers, who often have limited options for recreation in a small city like Hudson.
“Half of Youth Not From Hudson” is Misleading
Hudson is a hub for many surrounding areas. Kids who attend Hudson City School District, regardless of their home ZIP code, are part of our community. The Youth Department reflects this inclusivity, serving kids from diverse backgrounds while maintaining its focus on Hudson's youth (and in some cases requiring payment from families with children who are not in Hudson proper).
Shared Responsibility for Youth Development
While Hudson does have other organizations serving youth, these are niche programs that cannot replace the scale and scope of the Youth Department. The Youth Center ensures every child—whether they’re interested in art, sports, or just need a safe space—has access to programming. Collaboration, not competition, among organizations is key to supporting all youth effectively.
Investing in Youth is Investing in Hudson’s Future
Supporting kids is a community responsibility. These programs reduce crime, improve academic outcomes, and create a stronger sense of belonging for Hudson’s next generation. Many residents, myself included, take pride in knowing our tax dollars are being used to provide a foundation for young people to thrive.
The Youth Center is doing its part to maintain transparency, provide impactful services, and be a cornerstone of support for Hudson families. Before casting doubt on its operations, I’d encourage everyone to read the reports, attend meetings, and see firsthand the difference the department makes in our community.
Hi Hudseeker -
DeleteI appreciate your sincere comments and thoughts, happy to discuss over tea one day if you were so inclined. But here are some notes to try to sharpen our collective thinking:
1️⃣ - no one is anti-youth or and anti-youth programs, at least no one I know.
2️⃣ - one can be pro-youth, and pro generic youth enter in Hudson, and still question public spending, efficiency, and trade-offs. In fact, it is the duty of a citizen in a republic.
We question other departments, why is the Youth Center off limits? Shouldn't we engage more since the youth is the future.
3️⃣ - framing any critique of Hudson's Youth Center as immoral or racist ("moral framing" or "ideological framing") is imho unhelpful and drives resentment. I am not saying _you_ are necessarily guilty of this Hudseeker, and I do really appreciate the tone and content of your thoughtful and caring comment, but when feces is thrown at fiscally responsible mayors (not Kamal) at public hearings about the Youth Center, or commenters or council members are verbally attacked and then ostracized for asking questions about the Youth Center, it polarizes debate and stifles substantive discourse on public policy issues.
4️⃣ - the lack of transparency that you allude to has now been catalogued (I am told by city employees, for years) relates to many issues, but in particular:
A) we still don't know the exact head count of Hudson vs. non-Hudson youths. Is this published somewhere already? I may be wrong and it was published now? Happy to be wrong. Please post the answer below with source.
B) what is the population pyramid? What percentage of the "youth" are ages 6-9, 10-16, 17-18, 19-21, 21 plus? Or whatever increments currently in use but more precise than "youth".
C) how many hours a day, and days per week, does the "youth" spend at these facilities. In a future post I will show you the current cost of labor hour 🤯
D) broad numbers that were shared in the past after several inquiries were questioned by students and their parents in the program.
E) why not ask Greenport or Columbia County to simply contribute proportionally for their students and pay with their own tax revenue?
5️⃣ - see Gossips archives for stories on conflicts of interest and cronyism in terms of hiring at the Youth Center of people politically connected to the Mayor.
6️⃣ - you really know that people care deeply about something when they unionize to guarantee permanent employment and pay, like the Youth Center did. Jesus, Mohammad, Mother Theresa, and Buddha first created and joined a Labour Union and then started doing their life's work 😉 I kid.
But see the literature on labor unions and education outcomes, specifically "The Long-run Effects of Teacher Collective Bargaining" by Lovenheim and Willen. They found that Teacher Unions actually harm the future income of men, and specifically men of color.
So let's take your arguments and run with them to see where the logic takes us:
Delete7️⃣ - if your argument is to help residents of Hudson who are in most need…. then it would be intellectually honest and wise to ask if the City of Hudson should fund Camphill Hudson (differently abled youth, a center doing great work).
Or should we not fund the Senior Center more? After all, the median age in Hudson is not 21 and now with property taxes going up many of our senior citizens on fixed incomes/retirements might have to make sacrifices.
Why don't we fund the City library in its entirety? Most cities do. The library is open to all and a lifeline for many.
Why don't we fund/subsidize a daycare service that all can participate in? After all, then young parents can free up time and resources so there is a double or triple win. Doesn't research show that the first 5 years of life is more critical for human development than 15-20?
You see my point.
The government cannot do everything.
And a small City government with a leadership crises certainly cannot solve national or even regional problems, let alone its own.
And when it overtaxes its residents to fund services only open to a small percentage of the population, it may lose the tax payers and then everyone loses, especially those who need the help most. See Africa and Argentina. 🇦🇷
8️⃣ - if your argument is that NON-resident youth should be supported equally by the City of Hudson as resident youth… well then I ask why Columbia County youth and not Green County youth (technically a poorer county and part of our community and the local joint Community College CGCC structure), or for that matter, why not save hundreds of lives and fund anti-starvation programs in Africa or Bangladesh?
Why not make a camp exclusively for undocumented immigrant youth in New York whose families might come under immense pressure in the coming years due to changes in federal policy?
9️⃣ - More money is rarely the solution.
If more money solved problems then the American healthcare system (the most expensive and best funded in the world) would be stellar and Americans would be very healthy… if more money solved problems then the $50m budget of the Hudson School District would have had zero bullying and delivered graduating classes where more than half earn full financial aid to top 50 Colleges or high starting salaries…. if more money solved problems then Hudson would be happier with its $20m budget vs its $10m budget.
🔟 As a famous economist once said;
"There are no solutions, just trade-offs".
p.s. You selectively misquoted me by leaving out "almost" in two quotes. I am sure there was no bad intent but to be clear. "Almost half" implies a range close but less than 50%. Directionally, this is correct and in line with the statistics, I hear through city workers, were shared to date by the Youth Director.
References:
http://www.camphillhudson.org/our-mission.html
Glad to see this good discussion ... when it comes to taxes in Hudson its always felt like extortion.
ReplyDeleteNicole Vidor is right, and I hope she is better than the real estate agents who sold me my house nearly three years ago and made no mention of how the taxes would be reassessed as they simultaneously pushed me to pay above the asking price on a property the sellers had already agreed to sell at asking. My taxes increased 120% this year, and that tax burden is now so punishing that I plan to sell as soon as I can break even on my purchase price. Unfortunately this town has also damaged my ability to get that price, thanks to a $25,000 tax burden on a 2 unit 3000 sq ft property. Like Nicole, I know plenty of larger and more valuable buildings with a significantly smaller tax burden. I am well aware that I am paying the ‘newcomers welcome tax', and I feel all the animosity toward newcomers that is made abundantly clear on Facebook, where angry people go to vent in anonymity.
ReplyDeleteEvery time some older business closes, I see locals complain on Facebook about greedy landlords, or newcomers, or both, but I don’t think that’s the core of the problem. I blame greedy and inefficient Hudson government. Landlords set prices based on purchase price, taxes, mortgage rates, utility prices, and what the market will bear over those costs. Newcomers see all the potential of this place, and come to start businesses they couldn’t start elsewhere, until one day they wake up to a shocking new tax assessment. From what I see, it’s the tax burden created by the City of Hudson, and distributed with gross inequity and lack of foresight that is the core of the problem.
I moved here as a lifelong photographer and single mom from a much smaller village, Sag Harbor, NY which I chose because it was a safe place to raise a small child, with a good school system and I had a two-year-old son whose father lived in Russia, while my own family lived in San Francisco. That place finally became so unaffordable over the 21 years I lived there that nearly all of my artist and entrepreneur friends left. I was luckier than most because I owned my own home for 20 years, and though I never wanted or expected to sell, I had to, because the cost of living became so unaffordable.
Over time, the restaurants became mediocre at best, with ever more offensively high pricing, and restaurant owners had to buy property just to stuff full of their staff. Except for the 5&10, Main Street shops were either real estate offices or luxury goods for tourists.
I came to Hudson partly because there were still so many artists in this community, plus much better food, and an interesting assortment of affordable shops, and a friendly community. For me, that is a good barometer of the health of a community: can artists afford to live and work there? I think the answer here is “barely, for now, if they arrived a decade or more ago”. As much as I know everyone here hates the idea of Hudson becoming the Hamptons, I would say it’s about halfway there, maybe more.
If Hudson leaders don’t get this assessment practice under control, and stop using the purchase price for the assessed value, I predict this town is headed for a lawsuit, or worse, it will become Sag Harbor, where retail space now leases for about $150 per sq ft. (Hudson currently averages about $25/sq ft), and every business on the street has prices to reflect that increase. When I arrived in Hudson, the realtors on each side of my transaction offered to rent my commercial space, and I refused them all, because I think nothing ruins the quality of a main street in a small town faster than a dozen real estate offices on the ground floor. That’s what I moved away from.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, in an example of a total lack of foresight by Hudson leadership, a building site like 11 Warren St., that could generate half a million a year in tax revenue, add an entire block of commercial space, and anywhere from 20 to 100 apartments if developed, is instead purchased from Galvan for a Columbia County office that will generate no tax revenue, be a vacant eyesore on weekends, be outgrown by the occupants in 5-10 years, and create massive parking problems for the area. Why? Who allowed this to happen? Where is the leadership with enough vision to realize we need to create new housing and new tax revenue instead of spending more money without creating the mechanisms to grow responsibly. Hudson is not Bronxville, where people willingly pay extraordinary taxes in exchange for a top tier school system. I am not aware that anyone moves here for the school system, and yet I paid $12,000 into that $55.6 million budget, while noting the average bill among my neighbors was approximately $4000. If you want to see what everyone is paying, go have a look on the school website. It’s shocking.
I really wanted Hudson to be different, but if this city keeps forcing the people somewhere in the middle of the economic spectrum to carry this enormous tax burden, it’s going to end up with a city that is very wealthy and very poor, and I don’t see how that is better for anyone.
Tanya, you're right to mention the "school system," as badly bad and obvious as "the king has no clothes." --peter meyer
Delete👉 "From what I see, it’s the tax burden created by the City of Hudson, and distributed with gross inequity and lack of foresight that is the core of the problem." 🚨
ReplyDelete💔 Tanya - it so painful to read about your story and I am so sorry.
And it is even more painful to know that there are so many others with similar stories in our small town.
Just a few weeks ago Kamal and Tom (and County Supervisor Claire Cousins) drummed up support for the Rent Control / Good Cause Eviction law and blamed "greedy" landlords, real estate agents, everyone and every thing... except, of course, Kamal's record tax hikes and his government's mistakes like 11 Warren Street, half a dozen costly lawsuits, and a Planning Board that makes Parks & Recreation's Pawnee City Planning Board look efficient.
Where were all those people and organizations who filled City Hall for the Rent Control vote just weeks ago with posters championing housing affordability and verbally abusing Council member Dom for abstaining on a principle of integrity?
If all those folks really cared about housing affordability, if they cared about working families, if they cared about artists, if they cared about immigrants, they'd have shown up at these budget meetings.
When leaders like Tom and Kamal repeatedly show you who they are and who they care for... believe them.
Was Tom the one who made the Facebook post in the Hudson Community group about that good cause eviction law, and then deleted it? I had a lot to say there about the tax hikes being the source of these issues that were getting blamed on landlords. The person who wrote it was in a position to vote, but clearly wasn't interested in hearing people's opinions on the matter.
DeleteImmigrant, I remember specifically how Tanya posted about that new piece of legislation in the Facebook group. I replied and told her to consider selling and moving to any of the adjacent municipalities which do not treat property owners like dirt.
DeleteI also predicted that good-cause eviction wasn't going to to be the last piece of legislation forced down Hudson's throat by the Poughkeepsie carpet beggars. That was only the beginning.
Hudson is accelerating its demographic decline and John Friedman's 2017 prediction that it may need to merge with Greenport may soon ring true.
Tanya, it was Gary P. that made that post and I believe he was acting in good faith. I think the admins took it down because the “girlfriend” situation was mentioned.
DeleteTvP, Hudson is such an irregularity small city incorporated based off of some notoriety at the time of the revolution. We’re currently one of the smallest cities in the state and we suffer because of it. It would make sense for Hudson to “reunify” with Greenport. Where Greenport would become the “Town of Hudson” and Hudson proper would become a village within the town, like most populations in the state. But I’m afraid that Hudson would be too snobby to want it and Greenport would be smart not to want the tax burden. But financially and economically it would benefit both
DeleteGary Purnhagen, First Ward Council Member:
Delete1. Might be well intentioned and a kind man acting in good faith. ✅
2. But his FB post explaining his vote on Rent Control demonstrated unequivocally that he did not understand the law he voted YES on. 😪
I think that is why he deleted it.
Or Gary... did you delete it because the comments on the post mentioned Mayor Kamal ($85k plus public cost) is dating Michelle Tullo the Housing Justice Director ($80k? cost) who may be reporting to him as mayor?
(What is a good emoji for conflict of interest, breach of fiduciary duty, and unethical behavior?)
3. Gary works for the Columbia County Chamber of Commerce whose mission is to be a "leading voice for the business community in New York’s Columbia County"
In my opinion... voting for rent control while working for a pro-business development group is akin to a vegan working at a cattle ranch. ðŸ¤
4. That said, it was laudable that Gary tried to share his reasoning and views on a vote prior to the vote. More Council Members should do this... and then engage with the responses and change their minds via public input or deeper understanding.
Writing is thinking. Not many people in this town writes...
p.s. I made these points to Gary directly, and also mentioned to him that by undermining his colleague Margaret Morris by voting against her every time he is doing a disservice to his 1st Ward Constituents.
Gary, you have my email and number if you disagree with any of this or want another explanation of why you owe a primary duty to the 1st Ward that elected you, not other wards.
Hope you have a great Thanksgiving.
TvP, indeed I am looking for a new place to live, and planning on moving, but not before I can get out all the money I spent on my home in April of 2022. I don't think I am yet at break-even, and with the massive tax increase it will be harder to sell than ever. Someone wealthier than I will be happy to have my beautiful home.
DeleteUnion Jack, an attempt at a merger would provide infinite entertainment. Each municipality looks down on the other: In Hudson's opinion, we're a bunch of apes sitting on trees whereas Greenport thinks that Hudson is governed by a bunch of pretentious clowns that think nothing of paying $12 for a cup of drip coffee.
DeleteFunnily enough, what would probably make such an effort fail is Hudson's awareness of its own history. The City of Hudson moniker is something that Hudson is very proud of and losing it would be a hard pill to swallow for many.
I'm old enough now that I can say "deja vu all over again" without choking. The tax assessment system is broken, has been ever since California passed proposition 13 in 1978. It is simply ridiculous that one person determines the "value" of a property. Secondly, no mention here of a public school district that is one of the worst in the state and is choking our next generation with bad schooling. Hail Mary!!!
ReplyDeleteThe City is not in charge of the schools.
DeleteAbsolutely a problem but let's fix one at a time. On that note... we are doing some research... And there are public schools in Asia and Africa that send more kids to 100% scholarship / full tuition Colleges than Hudson High, but at 1/5th the cost.
The moral failing here is that Hudson High graduates are either burdened with College debt, or never get out.
Sorry to repeat myself below (old age), but "the city is not in charge of the schools" is a cop-out. They are the City's children and the City has an obligation to take care of them -- as well as the City taxpayers who help foot the bill (it works out to about a million bucks to get a kid to grade level reading and math at current spending levels.) We may not be "in charge," but Hudson should damn well demand that the people who are in charge quit burning our money. peter meyer
DeleteI'm now old enough to be reliving deja vu all over again again. We have not learned from California's proposition 13 (in 1978!!!) because it does not suit the mythology -- and political gain -- attendant on the system that allows a tiny minority to determine the value of a piece of property. We also have given up on our children, relegating them to a system that pays adults not to educate them. --peter meyer
ReplyDeleteThis will continue to happen until smart, thoughtful people run for the elected positions. Right now only two or three Council Members actually read the material they will be voting on. The others are there for the prestige (oy) the position conveys, or the health insurance or other reason. Very few actually are doing it to affect change.
ReplyDeleteThere are a number of people preparing to run. If anyone is interested in running, get in touch with me, I'd be happy to help. I was the Chair of the Hudson City Democrats for nearly a decade. We can do this!
Victor Mendolia
vicmen@me.com
Victor is right, and it will take many years to right the ship. Most of the annual budget increases are perfunctory to keep up with costs for bad decisions made years before. And yes, only a few pay attention, ask questions. We need engaged people who aren’t afraid to ask questions and vote no to the status quo. We need people that will demand fair and up to date property assessments. We need to say “no” to PILOTs. We need to not hamper progress and business and seek out alternative revenue sources. And, at the same time, we need to get the school district under control. It’s the biggest budget and tax of them all, for dwindling enrollment and a top heavy administration.
DeleteWe also need better county supervisors. Per the vote on 11 Warren: all of the 5 Hudson supervisors voted for it or didn’t bother to show up to vote. None voted no. They gotta go.
All you have to do is run… that’s all they do.
Thank you Victor!
DeleteAs immigrants we'd love to run but we can't vote or stand for office we just have to pay taxes.
Who in your opinion does not read and prepare for council meetings?
It seems to me that Trixie, Margaret, Vicky, and Dom read, vote on principle, and do the work.
Who are we missing?
Family monopolies and local political frauds have managed to propel this disingenuous employment windfall. It’s about jobs and preservation. Not community. It’s right in front of you. This is big family business at the local level. They are spending other peoples $. Unless you complainers plan to get involved, it ain’t changing!
ReplyDeleteHi Mr. Bike -
Delete"By local political frauds"... I guess you mean Mayor Kamal and CC President Tom's conflict of interest as it relates to the Hudson Democrats, and Mayor Kamal's alleged relationship with his direct report, the Housing Justice Director Michelle Tullo?
But what do you mean my "family monopolies" pray tell?
Reading through this thread, it’s clear that people care deeply about Hudson, its future, and its affordability—and I share those concerns. But I feel like we’re losing sight of something critical: what kind of community do we want Hudson to be?
ReplyDeleteYes, taxes are a burden, and we should be asking hard questions about how our city spends its money. But as much as I empathize with frustrations about rising costs, I think it’s worth pointing out that investments in programs like the Youth Department aren’t about frivolity or political games—they’re about building a Hudson where kids have opportunities and a reason to stay. If we want this city to thrive, we need to invest in its future, and that starts with its people.
The rhetoric here—about who deserves to live in Hudson and what kinds of investments matter—feels counterproductive. Are we really saying that we’d rather see a city that prioritizes saving money over creating opportunities for its residents? What would it look like if we redirected this energy toward holding all departments accountable for their spending, while still recognizing the value of services that directly benefit our neighbors?
Hudson is at a crossroads. We can either make it a place where people of all backgrounds—working families, artists, immigrants, and, yes, even kids—can find opportunity, or we can let it become a playground for only the very wealthy. That’s not the Hudson I want to see.
Instead of pointing fingers, let’s engage constructively. The budget process should involve all of us—how can we work together to ensure transparency, efficiency, and fairness while protecting the programs that make this city worth fighting for?
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DeleteHi HudSeeker - all about seeking solutions and I love your emphasis on thinking carefully about what type of Hudson we want. Insert Peter Spear's great ideas about community listening... which has fallen on deaf ears with the mayor for a very long time...
ReplyDeleteJust one data point to add... wealthy people who can live anywhere... and _choose_ to live in Hudson (over Nantucket / Aspen / Jackson Hole / Hamptons / Austin or Europe etc.) have already demonstrated with their feet and their wallet that they value artistic, diverse, and rural/urban communities.
Hudson is statistically MORE diverse than America.
Hudson does not have leading schools or hospitals.
So that self-selection is a data point. And that is why you see so many new residents (going back decades) be so involved with local programs and artistic or youth groups.
And this is not just about "saving money" this is about capital efficiency.
If the money were well spent people would complain a lot less.
While I have some ideas I will let others respond to your great question of what can be done...
You raise an interesting point about people choosing Hudson for its unique blend of artistic and diverse community values. Buying property and supporting local businesses absolutely contributes to the city’s character, but it’s the people who make Hudson what it is and have done so for generations. That’s why investing in housing, youth, and other community programs is critical.
DeleteThe calls to slash the Youth Department budget feel misplaced to me. This department directly supports local kids, especially in a gentrifying community where many families are already struggling to stay. Youth programming is a necessary investment in the long-term health of Hudson. When we support youth, we’re creating opportunities that ensure the city remains a diverse place for future generations.
I don’t know much about Peter Spear’s community listening idea, but I think there are lessons to draw from other examples of collective action. Community-driven forums have the potential to make lasting change, but it takes a movement—a group of people that is truly representative of the community. Proposals made in isolation or by a few voices, no matter how well-intentioned, are unlikely to succeed if they don’t have broad buy-in.
For example, Beacon, NY—a small city with a similarly diverse and creative community—successfully implemented its Greenway Trail project through a truly grassroots effort. Residents, local organizations, and city officials came together in open forums over several years to shape the project, ensuring it reflected the needs and values of the community. Their process involved hosting well-advertised public meetings, creating advisory committees with representation across demographic and socioeconomic lines, and even door-to-door canvassing to engage people who might otherwise not have participated. The result was a shared sense of ownership and pride that continues to drive broader civic engagement in Beacon (even as recent as this week).
Maybe the next step in Hudson is thinking about how to organize around engagement more intentionally—what would it look like to create forums or structures where diverse voices come together to drive change? Hudson has so much potential to model this kind of collaboration, and it starts with everyone feeling like they have a seat at the table.
Thanks HudSeeker -
Delete1 - Love the idea of a real listening and community exercise. I suggest you meet Peter and the many other talented residents who have been frozen out of participation.
Recall that Kamal decided to pay $200k to a big city firm to launch a statistically flawed research project, instead of doing something local and organic.
2 - Tom is so toxic in how he manages public meetings*, and Kamal's cabal permanently ruined trust in his administration and possibly also his long-term political career.
3 - I am not necessarily calling to slash the Youth department per se. We want data. For now I am making the case that even asking questions leads to an emotional and tribal response.
4 - See my other reply to you above, I think we should reason from first principles... if we had a fixed amount of tax revenue, that increases incrementally along with resident growth, where do we best spend it to serve the greater good.
And right now, the city expenditures are driven by a biased and political minority that hides the ball.
Most residents have no idea Hudson's budget is now $20m... when they find out they are shocked.
Is Tom's plan to add a $1m to the city budget every year, and continue to deplete the City's rainy day fund (like we did with this budget vote)?
Hello, I am new to this Blog. I was born at 31 Union Street in 1985, a time when no one wanted to invest in that area of town. I remember being made fun of as child for living in a low SES-neighborhood close to the "High Rise", also known as Bliss Towers to most of us. I managed to work my way out of working poverty and becoming the first person in my family to own a home on the 500 block of State Street, purchasing it in 2017. Again, made fun of for purchasing something in what was known as '"5th and Compton" because of the amount of shootings. I have escaped the first wave of gentrification on Union, now I have to escape it's second coming on State Street. I am afraid to say, that even as a Psychologist working within the state system, making 6 figures , it isn't going to be enough for me to keep my home until I retire. I have been looking in the Delmar area, even looking South of here....because frankly there isn't much in Hudson in terms of affordability. My doctors are in Westchester, affordable food options seem to lie in Red Hook or in the Capital region. I am not sure to make of it all, but simply put- it will no longer be affordable for me within the next five years.
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