Sunday, May 31, 2026

Last Night with the Planning Board: Part 3

The title should more accurately be "Thursday Night with the Planning Board: Part 3," but, since it's the final part in a series. . . . 

Early on in the Planning Board meeting on Thursday, Ron Bogle, who chairs the Planning Board, made the following statement. (It should be noted that Peter Spear was absent from the meeting on Thursday, because he had to be out of town for business.)
I want to comment, mostly for the record and on behalf of Peter Spear who had expressed some concerns that I'm sympathetic with. And that is, as we approach this project, the comprehensive plan addressed, the one issue it addressed was that we should seek to correct the harm that was done during the Urban Renewal period in our communities.
The particular statement being referenced here is found on page 51 of the comprehensive plan known as Hudson 2035:
This comprehensive plan acknowledges the city’s complexities, including the history of displacement in Hudson, from indigenous Mahican people to residents that lost their homes and communities during Urban Renewal to those that could no longer afford rent while the 2035 Comprehensive Plan was being developed. By recognizing historical injustices, the 2035 Comprehensive Plan commits to promoting equitable development that repairs harms and prevents future displacement. 
Let's review the harms that were done to Hudson during Urban Renewal. The photograph below shows an aerial view of Hudson from the 1930s, decades before the devastation of the early 1970s.


The photograph shows that once upon a time the lower end of the city was pretty much the same on both sides of Warren Street. The grid pattern of the streets was regular. Houses and buildings north of Warren Street stood on 26-foot-wide lots with a relationship to the street that is still found on the blocks south of Warren Street. 

An area of more than fifty acres was leveled and re-created during Urban Renewal. The extent of the project is described in a booklet published in August 1970 by the Hudson Urban Renewal Agency, chaired by the late Arthur Koweek. The last two sentences are particularly interesting. 
Approximately 286 dwelling units, housed in 176 buildings, most of them in extremely substandard condition, were found in the area. Approximately 850 persons resided in them in conditions that were deplorable. Overcrowding was a problem in many buildings, and dwelling units sometimes housed two or three families. Many units were vermin infested, had inadequate heating facilities, chipping paint, leaking roofs, poor lighting, and cracked foundations. Fires had always been a problem in the area, and the rotted hulks of many burned out buildings were to be found.
Physically the area contains more than fifty acres and is bound on the North by New Street, on the South by Cherry Alley, on the West by the Hudson River and on the East by Second Street. The area was a tax problem to the City, taking more than its proportionate share of City services, such as fire, police and health protection. There was also a problem with the abandonment of buildings as well as there being a number of structures owned by the City because of tax defaults.
Note that the original parameters of the Urban Renewal Area included both sides of the first two blocks of Warren Street.


The Hudson Urban Renewal Agency painted a pretty bleak picture of that which it destroyed. That's understandable. It had to justify the extreme actions it was taking. But an item that appeared in the Register-Star on April 30, 1974, gives different sense of the neighborhood and the houses that were bulldozed. The last house to be demolished was this one, which stood at 12 Chapel Street and was the home of an 83-year-old woman named Mrs. First. According to the information provided in the Register-Star, she had lived in the house for fifty years and had raised her six children there.


The reason the demolition of this particular house got attention in the Register-Star was not only the irony that the "First house" was the "last house" to be demolished but also that Mrs. First's son, Walter First, was the president of Keil Contracting Corp., which was under contract with the Hudson Urban Renewal Agency to demolish "all the street's buildings, removing sidewalks, pavements, and curbing and regrading the site in preparation for future development."


There is even more irony, which couldn't be appreciated in 1974. Walter's son, Jeffrey First (shown seated at the far left in the picture above, on the stoop of his grandmother's house) served for many years, up until 2016, as executive director of the Hudson Housing Authority and property manager for Bliss Towers and Columbia Apartments.

What happened during Urban Renewal had an enormous, community-altering impact not only on the neighborhoods of the Second Ward but also on the city as a whole. Hudson still deals with the consequences of the decisions made by the Hudson Urban Renewal Agency, decisions that concentrated low-income housing in one area of the city and rendered the revitalization that has taken place on the south side of Warren Street and elsewhere impossible by destroying much of the historic architecture that has been the engine of Hudson's revitalization. Granted it is not insignificant, but the current plan does nothing more than provide new housing for the current residents of Bliss Towers. In that respect, it perpetuates the harm done by Urban Renewal by perpetuating the concentration of low-income housing in the same area of the city. 

At Thursday's meeting, Planning Board member Sara Black said she was interested in "having more of a public discussion about what it means to repair the harms of Urban Renewal." She went on to say:
I've heard a lot about this in terms of restoring the built urban form. I think stably rehousing all the residents of Bliss Towers is the most significant way to repair the harms of Urban Renewal, as frameworks that are outlined in the comprehensive plan are largely not architectural.
Those hoping for a discussion of the proposed design for the project, one that assesses the success with which the designs manifest the claims the architects have made about replicating texture and scale and creating buildings that "align harmoniously into the community," will be disappointed. That apparently is not going to happen. At one point in the meeting, Bogle stated, "I don't think we should opine on the design because that's outside the scope." Responding to a question from the Planning Board's consulting engineer, Bogle said:
I think all we can say about the aesthetics is that the applicant has been responsive to the board, thoroughly. They provided a fulsome and transparent overview of the overall plans for the project. I just don't feel like we need to be making architectural judgments about the design, and I believe they've responded in many ways to the comprehensive plan and they have responded in many ways to the character and nature, both scale and density, of architecture in the city.
The document Bogle is referencing, "Questions for the HHA Architect," with the responses from Alexander Gorlin, can be found here


At the meeting on Thursday, the Planning Board made a negative declaration in the SEQR (State Environmental Quality Review) process, which came as no surprise although Register-Star and the Times Union both made it their headline. The Planning Board also set a date for a public hearing on the project: Tuesday, July 21, at 6:00 p.m. at the Central Fire Station, 77 North Seventh Street.
COPYRIGHT 2026 CAROLE OSTERINK

30 comments:

  1. Reading through the Q&A referenced in here, I came across "6. Ground Floor Design and Use" which states that the ground floor will be used for "residential lobbies, community‑oriented spaces, Housing Authority offices, and outdoor gathering areas".

    I seem to recall that some time last year there was talk of the ground floor featuring some form of light retail. Am I misremembering this?

    If there is one thing that more than anything else would elevate the currently proposed design, it would be retail stores on the first floor. This project lies in the G-C district which would allow this type of mixed use.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Are you thinking of the Galvan, now Bard owned, Hudson Depot lofts, half of the apartments now sitting empty after a year?

      Delete
    2. That's the only one I could have conceivably confused it with. But I am somewhat positive that first-floor retail came up as a feature of the Bliss replacement.

      Very disappointing to see that either my memory is failing me or that it was silently dropped.

      Delete
    3. Max is right. Retail on the ground floor, maybe a small grocery store, and even a YMCA--all were mentioned at some point.

      Delete
    4. There is no retail zone north of the midline in Columbia Street in the 2nd ward. There should be -- it would go a long way to making that area an actual neighborhood.

      Delete
  2. $800,000+ per unit of subsidized housing,

    on land that won't pay the City of Hudson the property and school taxes the rest of us pay.

    So everyone else's bill goes up, or the services give way.

    ~

    $220 million for 276 apartments is about $800,000 each, nearly twice the price of a typical Hudson home (~$425,000), even after the pandemic run-up, and about double a typical New York affordable unit and three times the national norm of ~$250,000–$300,000.

    But only 84 of the 135 units are occupied today, the other 51 taken offline by asbestos and disrepair, so the real figure is $2.6 million for every family living in Bliss tonight, enough to cover a typical Hudson family's rent for more than a century.

    We are told this is about housing the poor _existing residents_ of Hudson, and of course rehousing those 84 households has near-universal support. It should given NYS law.

    What no one volunteers: how many of the 84 are single occupants rather than families, and that large public construction projects routinely run over budget and behind schedule, which could push this past $1 million a unit when all is done and given the building site soil / history.

    Which leaves the question no one asks;

    When did replacing a 135-apartment complex, 84 of it occupied today, become building 276 subsidized units at roughly $1 million each, packed onto a Hudson "city" block, in a town already short of jobs, where only about a ~25-30% of HCSD students read or do math at grade level?

    Is that good for Hudson, for the Second Ward, or for Bliss's own future residents?

    And these units won't pay full property or school taxes.

    HHA will run on another PILOT tax break, a fraction of what a market-rate building would pay. Messrs. Tucker / Spampinato from CEDC - how much will the City of Hudson / HCSD get in PILOT tax per year when this whole project is done?

    So who covers the added cost on HCSD, HPD, HFD, and the county? The rest of us.

    For scale: can anyone find a single-family home in the City of Hudson that has ever sold above $2.5 million? We could not. Maybe 1 or 2 in Mount Merino?

    A scan of Zillow and Compass turns up fewer than 100 homes currently listed over $1 million sold in the whole city, ever.

    Bliss 3.0 will build 276 units, each costing about what only the rarest Hudson homes are worth, and put none of them on the full tax roll.

    No wonder the Mayor Ferris moved Sara Black, most recently HHA Commissioner/Treasurer, before that the HCDPA's Administrative Coordinator, and a consultant on Spark of Hudson's HudsonDots housing project, onto the Planning Board now judging the HHA's application.

    ReplyDelete
  3. The real figure is almost certainly not $2.6M. If all currently existing Bliss Towers units were hospitable to human life, they'd be rented out. There is also undeniably a backlog of potential tenants seeking housing. I have no doubt that, if built, none of these 276 units will be empty.

    The per-unit cost is still very high. That appears to be a property of affordable housing in NY State. Why, I can't really say. The good news is that this isn't immediately affecting anyone in Hudson - it's all funny money anyway.

    As for the Sara Black appointment: No mayor can craft a Hudson Planning Board that would ultimately shoot down this project. It's not an option. The political fallout from that would be hard to imagine. Ron Bogle is clearly very much aware of this and so far has steered the discussions in the right direction.

    What the Planning Board, even one with Sara, can do is make this as good as it can be given the circumstances. That to me would include a stern reminder to the developers to include retail on the ground floor. Carole elsewhere here confirmed my hunch that that was the plan in the past. Mountco and the HHA should be held to this.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The honest figure is $800k to $1m a unit, as we said.

      Every case for Bliss begins and ends on one note: the existing residents deserve a decent home.

      Granted, rehousing the 85 occupied units has near-universal support.

      But 85 households do not require 276 units.

      The moral case covers one unit in three; the rest rides in behind it.

      A Planning Board is quasi-judicial. It applies the code, it is not a political body. No one elected it on a platform.

      The mayor's job is to seat members with no stake in the outcome, and a former HHA Commissioner / Treasurer judging an HHA application is the opposite.

      Hudsonians who rightly question a conflicted or politically appointed Supreme Court justice will not apply that standard 3 blocks from home.

      re: "isn't immediately affecting anyone in Hudson, it's all funny money anyway".

      It is real money. Off Hudson's own tax base, onto Hudson's services, drawn from real state and federal taxpayers, that you will a lot into this year.

      And that, dear Max from Greenport, for whom this is interesting content and not a tax bill, is how Hudson became as dysfunctional as it is.

      What do you think would happen if they split this development and put 1/3 in Hudson, 1/3 in Greenport, and 1/3 in Claverack, the other towns sharing HCSD.

      Delete
    2. Comparing the purchase price of existing single-family homes to the per unit construction cost of a project that includes infrastructure, elevators, 2026 materials costs, etc. is silly. Commonly nonsensical.

      Delete
    3. Michael B. exactly, and all too often nonsensical.

      Delete
    4. Not nonsensical.

      We led with the number that says everything and put it first: $800,000 each. Before delays and cost over-runs.

      The single-family line was scale, an illustration. And right on cue, MB. and MS swung at the illustration and left the real number untouched. That is the tell.

      So engage it. The $800,000 is total development cost, land, construction, soft costs and all. Even California, the most expensive affordable-housing market in the country, builds its tax-credit units for $450,000 to $480,000.

      Hudson is set to clear that by a wide margin. Compare total cost to total cost, and the number holds.

      One small follow-up, MS and MB:

      when the $220 million is spent, who actually owns the building? New York State? The City of Hudson? The residents? The HHA? Or Mountco?

      And this goes to the good faith question you should also care about... how will the story of Bliss not just repeat itself?

      Delete
    5. Re: California - what’s your source for that construction cost? Because here’s a brief from UC Berkeley’s Terner Center for Housing Innovation that looked at 3 years of LIHTC projects (almost 700 total)—aka, tax credit projects—and the per unit cost is closer to $650K (in 2024 dollars).

      https://ternercenter.berkeley.edu/blog/assessing-the-cost-of-impact-fees-on-affordable-housing-an-analysis-of-low-income-housing-tax-credit-projects-in-california/

      Your numbers are way off base and lacking any sort of citation whatsoever. I don’t know what “cues” you think people are responding to, or what the “tell” of illuminating your bad data might indicate. I do know that it’s a bad look to use made up numbers to try to sway public opinion.

      Delete
    6. MB says our numbers are "way off base and lacking any sort of citation whatsoever."

      That is like debating the deck chairs count and alignment on the Titanic without a word about the iceberg dead ahead.

      The citations exist, Terner, GAO, CohnReznick. A fully footnoted comment runs long. And yes, we cited different years and did not inflation-adjust between them. So stay tuned for the HHA Special Report, and every footnote you desire.

      See the Youth Center report as an example.

      Back to the iceberg you are avoiding:

      Hudson is building some of the priciest public housing in the country, about $800,000 a unit and maybe $1 million after overruns, on par with or above the typical Manhattan and SF projects, on cheap upstate land, for a fraction of the taxes a market building would pay.

      No one has explained the cost.

      No one has explained who will pay for the extra city services.

      Straighten the chairs all you want. Or be braver, and defend the project itself.

      Someone should. Why not you, since you seem interested in housing policy? Happy to run it under "Michael B."

      Delete
    7. Oh, and one of our readers wanted us to post this:

      "Who is going to live in 300+ units in a county - a county - with no jobs? No careers?"

      Delete
  4. PS - the mayor’s job is NOT to “seat members with no stake in the outcome”. That language exists nowhere in any language around the composition of planning boards. Probably because it too is silly. How in the world could a mayor appoint board members with no real or perceived conflicts without having perfect knowledge of every application the board will review during that member’s term.

    Board members should recuse themselves if they are in a position to make a decision about a project in which they have a financial or personal interest. No law, statute or even advice suggests that the mayor should be Nostradamus.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Recusal" is for the conflicts a mayor couldn't see coming.

      It is not a pardon for appointing the HHA's former Treasurer to judge the HHA. Nobody asked for Nostradamus.

      We asked for someone who reads a resume and is aware of the existing docket in front of the PB.

      And look, this is presumably why Sara was not Joe's first on the record pick for the PB vacancy...

      Delete
    2. All parties involved in the specific instance you cite seem to have consulted the legal counsel that represents them and come away with a different conclusion. Some people with law degrees disagree. In other news: water is wet.

      To return your attention to the statement we are actually talking about: mayors don’t need to appoint people to boards who don’t have “stake[s] in the outcome” of things presented to them. It would be a strange planning board indeed if it was comprised of seven people who didn’t care what happened in this city.

      Delete
    3. You've slid "stake in this application" into "cares about Hudson." Nice swap.

      Friedman meant the first; you answered the second. Every member can care about the city; only one judged a body she governed a few weeks ago.

      As for the lawyers, by your own words they "represent them": Black says the mayor's city attorneys and the board's own attorney cleared her, every one aligned with the side that seated her,

      _and curiously none of it reached a letterhead or the minutes._

      Bogle stepped back, calling it "Sara's decision alone."

      Aligned (normally we would say "captured" counsel, nothing in writing, and the chair declined to endorse.

      Water is wet.

      Conflicts are conflicts.

      Delete
  5. I was asked if I could confirm or correct the stated housing price figure of "~$425,000" for Gossips' readers.

    According to New York State SalesWeb* (which pulls directly from Real Property Transfer Reports filed by local clerks), this is where Hudson's one-family year round residence sales (arm's length) were in 2025:

    Median Sale Price: $525,000
    Average Sale Price: $661,354

    *https://pad.tax.ny.gov/salesSearch

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks, Chris, that helps and good CEDC value add.

      $525,000 is the freshest, most pandemic-inflated figure anyone could pick, and it still falls well short of the $800,000 to $1 million each Bliss unit will cost to build. Thank you for the steelman.

      And that is the tell. The questions and nitpicks are always over the home price, $425,000 or $525,000, never the $800,000 a unit. Everyone avoids the numerator....

      Same crowd that never asks why a youth center that cost $50,000 twenty years ago now costs $900,000.

      Argue the denominator all you like. Taxpayers pay the numerator, and the full taxes these units never will.

      Delete
    2. What is the point of comparing current home prices (whether actual prices or your numbers) to the construction cost of these units? Are you attempting to illustrate that building a bunch of ‘market-rate’ single-family units would be more efficient?

      Delete
    3. Accountability.

      Funny how no one guards other people's tax dollars the way they guard their own.

      If we did, Hudson would run a $10m budget, not $20m.

      A taxpayer answers for every dollar of his own money. Would you run a 2x cost overrun on your own house?

      You asked 3 questions about the home price, zero about the $800,000.

      You will defend the denominator and walk past the numerator every time.

      So here is the one Q you are dodging:

      who owns this Bliss 2.0 "public" housing once the final ribbon is cut, circa 2035?

      HHA, Mountco from Westchester? The State of New York?

      Delete
    4. HCS: It strikes me as not really permissible to juxtapose the sale prices of past arms-length transaction in the city with new construction. If I gave you $220M and told you to buy 276 units of housing in Hudson, you would not succeed.

      Whether all these units should be built and whether it should all happen in Hudson is an entirely different question. But your arguments about cost (which is carried as much by me in Greenport as it is by you since it's state income tax funded to a large degree) is IMO specious. They don't exist on the same plane.

      Delete
    5. Ahh, Max, that is the point, right where we thought this thread would go.

      Imagine if a quarter of Hudson were half as informed as you. Sigh.

      The real questions are simple:

      - Is this a fair price to build today?
      - Is it good for the people who will live there, in a city short on jobs and good schools?
      - And is it a fair tax for the rest of New York to built it, and for Hudson's own roll, to carry forever?

      Q for you and the readers:

      what share of Hudson residents know who will literally own the buildings when it is built (notice none of the other commenters or Chris Brown answers that), that each unit runs $800,000 to $1 million once the likely overruns clear, and who pays the taxes to serve hundreds of new residents, at HCSD/CoH forever?

      The last question is the one that most engaged residents ask us and one another, but dare not ask in public or town halls... because they would incur a social cost. And that is what the HHA/Hudson Tammany survives on.

      Delete
    6. Exactly this. Argue against the project on its other merits and flaws all you like; the comparison you’re drawing about cost is meaningless and misleading.

      Delete
    7. MB, the N.B. question still standing is the $800,000 plus a unit, and will this be done in more than a decade like MountCo’s last big development.

      And who will own the buildings when this is done?

      Why are you all so silent on this? 🤣

      No one in this thread, nor at the Housing Authority, has shown what hundreds of new residents will cost the City of Hudson, the school district (they had to terminate staff this year), and emergency services, set against what a PILOT actually returns to the local tax roll.

      - Did the mayor run the analysis?
      - Is it the PB’s job to ask?
      - Has Mike Tucker and Chris Brown from the CEDC explained the tax break?

      Why are you all avoiding it?

      Because when the taxes go up… and they will… only the Welfare and Wealthy Classes will stay, and the Working Middle Class will continue leaving.

      MB - do you want Hudson to be Manhattan, with the very rich and very poor, and the rest in the tri-state suburbs (Greenport) ;-)

      Delete
    8. HCS - I think you know I'm not at CEDC anymore (for two months now), and even when I was, I had little to do with the IDAs and nothing to do with PILOTs. I have very little insight into this project beyond what I've read in the papers. If there's a PILOT application, I'm unaware of it.

      Regarding building ownership: again, I have no special knowledge of this specific project, but generally in New York State public housing is owned by local housing authorities.

      I'd suggest that you try to get the answers you want from the people who are actually involved with the project.

      Delete
    9. Oh - congratulations CB. Did not receive the press release so was unsure.

      1. re: "but generally in New York State public housing is owned by local housing authorities."

      Is that true here? Will HHA own the 3 new buildings MB, Chris, HHA, others?

      2. And Gossips thread from 2020 (https://gossipsofrivertown.blogspot.com/2020/01/news-from-bliss-towers.html) points to a $30k per year for ALL City of Hudson, HCSD, and County taxes.

      Not sure if this is still true for Bliss 2.0. Chris, who at CEDC replaced you, and can she confirm the $30k per year tax number for the $220m development, delivering 276 units at ~$800k a piece?

      Delete
  6. I'm arriving late to the discussion here but can't help throwing my two cents in. The designs for replacements to Bliss Towers as pictured look pleasant enough, but as Carole mentions they do nothing to address the problem of ghettoizing people who need subsidized housing. Has anyone introduced the concept of infill housing: spreading throughout the city, on vacant lots, etc. residences for the same income levels? (Of which I am no exception, to be frank.) This seems to me to be the most organic way to build and not create a new but still stratified mix of Hudsonites,

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good point, Scott, and you are not alone.

      It is perhaps the most common question we get.

      Infill and scattered-site are not fringe ideas. Deconcentration is the logic behind decades of federal housing policy, and the Opportunity Insights (Chetty) work on where poor children actually climb out of poverty traps.

      It also sits awkwardly with rebuilding bigger on the same block the Comprehensive Plan says was harmed by concentrating housing there in the first place.

      To illustrate: A traffic study that blamed an intersection's design for the crashes would not then recommend rebuilding the same intersection, the same way, and hoping for a different result because the paint is brighter.

      So why one massive-project?

      Follow the money (incentives), not the motives. A single $220 million build is easier to finance and manage in NY than scattered sites, and it locks in the developer fee and the operator's funding for years (MountCo gotta grow). And the adjacent jobs, several HHA Commissioners earn money from public or subsidized housing related consulting or jobs. Just imagine how Kite's Nest and Promise Neighborhood can fundraise on this.

      Infill is harder to monetize.

      No Westchester developer drives up to a Hudson Planning Board meeting with a six figure car and dedicated company driver idling outside for 2 hours, to work on backyard ADUs.

      85 occupied units do not require 276.

      The Blis residents' real need is the moral cover (Trojan Horse?) for a project 3x in size.

      If they really wanted to solve it... the Galvan developed Hudson Depot project has enough empty units, not filling up, got a PILOT from the City... different ward. Move the Bliss residents there, take down the tower, replace it with 2-3 floor townhouses on the various properties and around town.

      Which leaves the questions no one at the HHA has answered:

      why all of it in one block, what the PILOT returns to the property and school tax roll, who owns the buildings when the ribbon is cut, and what it costs all taxpayers to host and serve with municipal services the 85 units versus 276.

      Are we building in an HPD, HFD, and Senior Center funding trigger that kicks in to increase their funding by 5% when these buildings go online?

      The one thing no one seems to know... is that when there are cost over runs.. and there will be, this is NY with prevailing wage, a toxic unstable building site.... the developer can "value engineer" i.e. cut features, change plans, change materials.

      So whoever is mayor in 2033 may deal with a situation where the City is trying to hold MountCo to its original and approved plan.

      Kinda like the bait and switch at the Hudson Depot Lofts... where Claire Cousin and QQ and the HCHC crowd initially went from complete boosters to detractors.

      Will be interesting to see if the boosters for Bliss 2.0 will turn out the same.

      Delete